Conquering Chronic Pain and Reclaiming an Active Life
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Kara Wada, MD: Welcome back, everyone, to this episode of the Becoming Immune Confident Podcast. And welcome to our new listeners as well. My name is Dr. Kara Wada. I am a board certified pediatric and adult allergy, immunology, and lifestyle medicine physician. And we love talking about all the ways that we can step into our own power and really become confident in how we are tackling life with the ups and downs that come living with chronic inflammation.
Today, I am just absolutely thrilled to introduce you to our guest, DK Ciccone is a certified Pilates instructor who helps people in pain, improve strength, mobility, and well-being in a weight neutral environment. She's also trained in pain reprocessing therapy through the Pain Psychology Center. Having begun her own journey with chronic back pain as a young teen, she's been exploring ways to help herself and others regain joy of movement for decades.
After 20 years in the health sector, DK left a corporate career to follow her passion, later launching Movement Remedies, a chronic pain focused Pilates studio in Boston, Massachusetts. Her first book, You're Meant to Move: A Guide to Conquering Chronic Pain, Increasing Stress Resilience, and Reclaiming an Active Life, was released in December of 2023.
I have been working my way through this book. It's an incredible resource, I'm sure we're going to talk all about it. But thank you so much for taking time out of your schedule, DK, to talk with us today. And we'd love to hear a little bit more about you and your journey.
DK Ciccone's Personal Journey with Chronic Pain
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DK CIccone: Thank you so much, first of all, for having me. I'm super excited to chat with you, and I'm also so honored and thrilled that you've been reading the book and enjoying the book. As you stated in my bio, I certainly didn't plan to be a person who devoted their life to chronic pain. I grew up obsessed with music and dancing. I had two musician parents, which I'm sure did not hurt. And, um, a grandmother who was absolutely in love with Broadway, so always had the records on. And so I grew up dancing and being enthralled with it, and really, of course, like many young girls, wanted to see myself on stage someday. I did start doing musical theater when I was 10, and then during a summer production, when I was 13, of a musical called, "Godspell". I was doing a super just normal kind of gesture on stage. It was my first solo of the performance and it was actually the first scene of the performance. I'm sure now knowing what I know about the nervous system, I'm sure that my anxiety was super high in that moment. There was like pressure to perform. It was a community theater production, not a school production. So it had, it was like me and a bunch of grown ups. And so I think there was probably a lot going on in my mind, kind of behind the scenes, but at any rate, I just had what would, you know, what I felt was sort of like a lightning bolt of pain. And from that moment forward through the performance, I really had like limited mobility in my low back and hips. It's like everything kind of locked up. And there were many things that went through my head at that time, but like, looking back, I sort of realize how confusing it must have also been for my parents because I didn't have an accident.
I didn't have, you know, anything major, any kind of force on my body. So the sort of a physical explanation of what was going on, like, wouldn't really fit, now that I look back thinking about it, right? But in the moment, like, and I think we often grasp for a physical explanation of a physical symptom, we assumed it was a muscle spasm or like, you know, something going on physically and I ended up on ice packs and heating pads for the weekend trying to wait for this like spasmatic whatever it was to go away. And that just became just a really frequent pattern in my teenage years, and I wasn't mapping at that time the episodes against what was going on in my life at the time.
And, you know, we never really went down the path for whatever reason of like exploring an orthopedic surgeon or anything like that to figure out, you know, if there was something happening. So, I never really got answers. It made it so I couldn't really show up for performances at all in the way that I wanted.
Like whenever I would tax my body too much, it was just, I couldn't stick it out. So also I started very young at a very young age, just carrying around this fear with me that like my body was going to sort of suddenly be unavailable, you know, which I think a lot of folks who have chronic conditions can also kind of relate to that body trust.
The role of body image and diet culture in shaping our relationship with pain
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DK CIccone: And for me, like part of the reason that having a weight neutral Pilates business is so important to me is because what I started to realize in my thirties, like forties, is that there was a real intersection for me between how I had learned to feel about my body because of diet culture and weight stigma and sort of pressure in the dance community to look a certain way. And how that overlapped with my like, lack of trust and fear in my body and had all of that, in my opinion, created sort of a cocktail of nervous system triggers and I think I just am naturally a sensitive person. Like some people are like sensitive to stimuli and some are not. And I think that that really resulted in a pain cycle in my life, which continued in my twenties and so on.
And trying to unravel all of that in a way that I could stop fearing what was going to happen every single morning that I woke up took decades. And so, for me, like, Pilates is a tool, is one of many tools that was really beneficial to me, but like, why I went down the path of pain reprocessing therapy and kind of these other things is because I think it's a big picture thing that you need to look at in your life and what I wanted when I wrote this book was to give people all the information and the tools to recreate their own journey, that took me so long.
You know, like if I, all the things I kind of wish I had known, and in one place and, you know, hopefully getting folks to understand that there is actually a happy ending here for the most part, like with the absence, you know, there's obviously some exceptional cases in some particular conditions that will just never progress. But for most folks, the body is so adaptable and so capable of progress and you can be strong, even if you're hurting, you can be strong. And there's just, there's a lot to be hopeful about when it comes to moving our bodies. And I think that we just need to change the narrative about it. So anyway, that was a super long answer to your question, but that is my story.
Kara Wada, MD: It's so helpful though, you know, as we, is I think about too, and I'm increasingly thinking about the patients I'm seeing in clinic. The last year or so, I've really kind of shifted my focus to seeing those more complex, multi system conditions. Often, they have a chronic pain component. I mean, rarely do they not.
DK CIccone: Mm hmm.
Kara Wada, MD: And more often than not, patients, especially being an allergist, patients are more sensitive, whether it's an allergy or in another way to their environment. So as part of that, I've been doing this deep dive into the centers of our brain, which you talk a lot about, you know, in a very understandable way in the book of how those centers in our brain modulate what we're experiencing and for some of us that are just at a different set point where that set point gets adjusted and there are ways to adjust it back down.
DK CIccone: For sure.
Unhelpful Messages and Misconceptions About Pain
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Kara Wada, MD: Looking back, you know, especially over the course of this journey that started at such a young age, what were some of the most like frustrating or unhelpful or just frankly offensive messages that you look back on now? And you're like, gosh. That was just not helpful in hearing this about your pain?
DK CIccone: Do you have a few hours?
Kara Wada, MD: Yeah,
DK CIccone: first of all, there was the fact that, when I was in my twenties and severely restricting my food, and still had a high BMI, because we all know now at this point that it's kind of trash science and, like, doesn't really represent actual health in any kind of way. But without asking me any questions about who I was and what I did, and I was working out like two hours a day. I was almost always, I would like dread going to the doctor because it was like a conversation about my BMI, which, you know, now looking back is insane to me because my BMI was minuscule compared to what it is now.
So just setting that up as like the first point of conversation without asking more questions is so friggin damaging, both because you start to fear your doctor, which nobody wants, I mean, preventive, as we know, preventive medicine is absolutely essential. And so if people don't want to show up because they're going to get guilted, that's not helpful. And so I think it also kind of, though no one explicitly ever said it to me, I think there was kind of this assumption, I think I also just naturally, you know, people pleaser type person, I take the blame for all the things. I just assumed like, oh, it's my fault. If I feel bad in my body, it's my fault. And so that just was a super unhelpful downward spiral that I had to pull myself out of. Some of the other things are like when I did eventually get diagnosed with a disc herniation in my lumbar spine in my twenties, super painful, immobilizing for a time, also was during a really tumultuous time in my life.
And so most of the studies, you know, now we know that people can be asymptomatic with disc herniations and labral tears and all kinds of stuff. So like that was never explained to me that like, you could be having this pain right now actually because of something going on outside, 'cause I just kept trying to unpack, like what did I do?
Like, right? I did a thing and I hurt myself. What a jerk am I? And I remember asking the orthopedic surgeon said, "Well, what do you think? Do you want to do the discectomy?" And I'm like, "I don't know. Do you think I'm a good candidate for surgery?" Like,
Kara Wada, MD: yeah.
DK CIccone: I'm like 25 and I'm like, you know. I don't know. I mean, when I go to the mechanic, you know, they tell me if my brakes need replacing, like, it's kind of straightforward.
Like I don't, I didn't know what to do with that. And so I went home and I looked up, you know, I mean, I'm grateful that I have enough skepticism to look up, you know, the success rates of those surgeries and they're not super great. So I'm like, yeah, no, let's not cut open my spine actually right now. And, you know, in the end, the pain abated, you know, it took time, but it abated. So like, that was a super unhelpful response.
The Impact of Dismissive Medical Advice
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DK CIccone: I've definitely got the, kind of just undelicately phrased, like, there's nothing wrong with you, kind of adding up to the, like, "it's all in your head" kind of situation.
And like I say in the book, like, I think when people say that most clinicians, they have the best intentions and what they're trying to actually say is there's other things going on in your life that are contributing to your pain. It doesn't make the pain less real, but it's just really not well articulated. It's so dismissive and I just think as a woman too, like we're really sensitive to being called crazy and I, I have a diagnosis of anxiety disorder. So like the minute I hear someone tell me, I mean, first of all, I'm very used to now being treated a certain way in the health system, especially now that I'm in perimenopause. And it's sort of like, yeah. That's it. That opened up like a whole can of worms. Yeah.
Kara Wada, MD: Abso-freaking-lutely.
DK CIccone: But the most damaging thing of all that anyone has ever said to me are all of the don'ts. Like, you should stop bending at the waist. I definitely had multiple people be like, don't bend at the waist. Or don't sit for more than 45 minutes, like ever again for the rest of your life. Or like, you know, don't twist. I mean for crying out loud, like, I mean, I saw that, you know, run through your head like, okay, so I'm just like never flying outside of a one hour radius, like ever again? Like, or I'm just going to be that jerk who's just like, I need to get up on the plane while it's like turbulent. I mean, you know, it's so impractical and it's also so wrong because I now deadlift 150 pounds, bending over and picking it up.
So like, that was wrong. And also, even if it's true that a person might be limited to some degree, like, is it benefiting them to actually close their mind to the possibilities first? Like, wouldn't it be better for, like I say all the time, I'd rather have hope and be wrong. But like once you've taken the hope away from someone that they can do a thing that they love, and they didn't realize what they were saying to me was like, all the activities you love are gone from you now, right? Like, taking that away from someone is so incredibly damaging to their mental health. And I just, and it just narrows their life into this little bubble and it's, that's just not, it's neither supported in the research nor is it beneficial. And so that to me is like the absolute no, no. And I still, I mean, it's, people have gotten better.
I think people get it.
Holistic Approach to Pain Management
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DK CIccone: You know, there's newer folks are coming into the clinical field and so they're being more sensitive to the biopsychosocial model of pain and all that stuff. But there's still folks out there who will just be like, "Yeah, well, just don't bend at the waist" and I'm like, "Oh, Okay. Are you gonna go get my groceries for me? Just wondering."
Kara Wada, MD: You're like, I'll, uh, I'll give you my Instacart or, you know,
DK CIccone: Right, exactly, exactly.
Kara Wada, MD: Um, I, you know, and I think what you're describing to many degrees is this overarching concept of like, you can have the placebo effect, that beneficial experience that you have with another human being that helps with healing. And then you can have the opposite, the nocebo, you know, when you actually do harm through that interaction and through your words, and kind of an extension of that. Yeah, it's, I'm sorry that our system is so terribly set up in every way to help those of us who have chronic conditions and especially pain.
DK CIccone: And I think that's the thing too, like you're saying, I think a lot of the advice that was given to me worked true in an acute setting. Like, yeah, maybe the minute you have a disc herniation, let's not pick up loads of laundry. Like, that's probably fair advice. Like, let's not exacerbate pain and inflammation in the period of healing of the tissues. But once that's over, like, none of that is true anymore, and I will even give some people the benefit of the doubt if I didn't hear it, but I don't recall anyone ever being like, okay, there's a period of tissue healing, and then after you're through that, there's a really good chance you'll get back to activity. Like that was not explained. And that's the reality.
Kara Wada, MD: I don't think there's time for that in that seven minute encounter.
DK CIccone: Well, and they're also like, you know, I feel for clinicians too, I mean, they're given this like little segment of time and they're set up to be kind of widget, widgetized, right? Because of the way reimbursement is. So it's kind of like, okay, well, I solved this problem, and this one is not, doesn't require my attention anymore, so like, dink. Yeah, exactly, and move along the line, and like, they're just doing their best. We don't set it up so that you, A, have time to like, go through all the issues, or no matter what anybody says, I've been through so many different models, I have never seen a successful care team like, really coalesce around a person, except in the cases of maybe like, maybe cancer or like, you know, extreme like rehabilitation or like, maybe there's those like, high trauma, high tier centers can do that. But the regular system does not.
Kara Wada, MD: Actually, one of my friends, colleagues, mentors, she's all those things. Um, Dr. Sarah Schafer, she also has Sjogren's, which is the autoimmune condition I have. And she just shared in her newsletter publicly how she was diagnosed with breast cancer in this last year. And she's like, goodness, why can't we see this care team that has come around, you know, that she experienced with this aspect of her health? Why can't we see that with Sjogren's for instance was of course, you know, the other point she was making, but, you know, expand that to other areas in chronic pain and so on and so forth, because there are these little glimmers of hope that really, when you have people who are working within their genius zone and coming together as a team, goodness, it really can be powerful, but it's few and far between.
DK CIccone: Well, and it's gotten to the point where the folks who benefit from those kinds of setups are usually having to pay out of pocket and they have a certain means. So it kind of creates this like two tiered situation where like, or folks end up trying to figure it out on their own. And it's kind of funny because I've actually tried to apply to several different clinical based certificate programs, just to kind of expand my knowledge, and I'm always rejected because I don't have a clinical degree. And I'm like, I actually got on the phone with one of the professors once because I was like, like it or not, I am the first point of contact for a ton of people when it comes to chronic pain. And I would much rather be informed on like, how to direct them to the correct referrals, like how to help them deal with different aspects of their pain, how to deal with the trauma of an accident, you know, like knowing when and how to hold space for these different problems. And I think the system would be better off if folks like me, and I know I'm not the only one, massage therapists and like, you know, other ancillary providers are often just the first point that a person goes to because they're not sure how to enter the health system in an effective
Kara Wada, MD: Or they've had other encounters with the healthcare system that frankly have been crap. And they're like, we're going to try other things before, you know, I'm going to put that off as long as possible before I actually get re traumatized by the system.
DK CIccone: Yeah, I mean, I've had tons of, I do work with a lot of joint replacements and you know, they'll come in for a while and it'll be like, the surgeon just is like, " Let me know when you're ready for that new hip." You know, it's like, I mean, I get what they mean by that. It's sort of like, there's a point at which the pain becomes so much that you just like need it, but you know, folks get just sort of tossed back out after that and then they don't know what to do next. They're like, "Should I work it and should I go through the pain?"
Building Resilience and Managing Pain Flares
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DK CIccone: And I think that's the other thing too, is like, in a lot of ways we have to figure out how to work against our own evolutionary development because the brain is saying pain because it feels under threat. The threat may or may not be real and we have to sort of discern. Like, I never promise anybody who comes to work with me, like, "Hey, I'm a healer and you're going to come get out of pain." I mean, a lot of people experience relief of some kind, but like the point is that pain is a sensation and we want to neutralize it, but being able to move your body and being able to build muscle is absolutely necessary, whether you feel pain or not. It is necessary to get stronger or stay strong in order to live the full life that you deserve and desire.
So I want people to be mobile and I want them to also understand that sometimes we have to check in and be like, Okay, brain, I hear you telling me to stop what I'm doing, like, is that real? Like, is there anything about what we're doing in this moment that is actively making my arthritis worse? And that's where I, you know, I try to do some research and make sure I understand for sure, but it's like, in most cases, no, there's nothing we're going to do gently with springs that's going to increase the osteophytes or whatever.
So if that's the case, then we keep going, right? We keep going like into a point where we're not, you know, triggering like a huge flare up. But my job is to get people strong is to get it so people can sit down on the toilet and get up again unassisted. Like being able to use the bathroom is like one of the major reasons people end up in assisted, you know, living situations.
And so like that is my goal, also helping to reorient ourselves around pain and that is what has been helpful to me is to resist that, like the minute that pain strikes, cause of course it still comes back, you know? Is to resist that, like, this is forever, right? 'Cause that's the first one I get is like, "Now this is going to never leave" and be like, "Okay, let's look back and think about all the times I had a pain flare up and it went away." And it's like, they are numerous.
So I have positive evidence that this will probably go away. And then like, what do I do? What do I normally do to feel good? And for me, just some gentle movement has what helped me. And so I do the gentle movement. You know, so like I have to have a strategy. Like you can't wait until the moment of the flare up and try to find a strategy. Like having a proactive strategy for how to deal with it when it happens and how to keep your consistency through the ups and downs of how your body feels, that is what it's about for me.
Kara Wada, MD: I think the other thing that has been such a powerful takeaway is your advocacy for having joy in movement. And finding that in our bodies, because, you know, it resonated for me also a product of a diet culture, Tae bo kind of, you know, upbringing was that, you know, you had to go, excuse the term, like balls to the walls, get that six pack. You know, it was always for this visual or, you know, kind of size that I was going to fit into. It wasn't from this space of 'I'm moving because this is fun and it's going to help my health and my body,' you know, there wasn't a positive aspect to it for most of probably my teens and twenties and frankly, most of my thirties too.
DK CIccone: I mean, I think for so many people it's an obligation. And it's just like another obligation on top of everything else that we have. As opposed to being like the self care that it could be. And that's why I think also I try to incorporate the role of stress because movement is such a great, it's chemically productive for stress. And it also just helps us be present in our bodies, which is also great for being resilient in a world that's always going to demand more of us than we can possibly supply. And yeah, I mean, I definitely have like punished my body for, you know, the sin of certain foods or whatever. And, I went through a phase where I started thinking, "Okay, what is the minimum amount of movement I can do to feel good in my body?"
And it turned out to be less than I expected. It was sort of like a little personal experiment to be like, does it actually have to be so much? I mean, and now, you know, I probably, I try to do at least 10 minutes a day, just to connect with my mind and heart and feel my body and sometimes it's more.
But I've discovered that, like, for me, I could really do great things for my back and hip pain with a five minute, you know, little something. For me, it was more about doing it more often. And just even the idea of actively doing anything with the intention of shrinking your body and it's just gotta go. It's just not a thing for health. And I think once we can get our heads around that, it becomes a lot easier, but that's a lot of programming to undo.
Kara Wada, MD: It's, uh, very timely. So I was doing a little straightening up before we got on to record this and found a pen a friend slash colleague had gifted me a while back and I actually hadn't picked up the pen to like look at it or read at it, embarrassingly, but it says, "I will not be afraid to take up space."
And I read that this morning, kind of what this thought and intent of like, space in the world, right? But I think with this conversation, it takes on a different meaning.
DK CIccone: Yeah. And I mean, speaking of unhelpful things that I think people hear, I have tons of people who are in pain and the only answer they get is to lose weight. That somehow their weight is the reason that their knee hurts. And it's like, well, you probably have arthritis, but you might have other things going on. And, you know, we have studies that show that people who do moderate amount of running do not progress knee osteoarthritis.
So like, I have a hard time believing that you carrying whatever weight is somehow harder on your body than somebody running and pounding, like, in the pavement for, you know, that's an acceptable amount of load, you know what I mean?
It's just, it's very, very unhelpful and I think it's lazy, and racist and patriarchal and all the things. So I would love it if we could stop saying that to people as an answer to how to deal with their pain, because even if we had research that showed that losing weight made your pain less, and I have not yet seen that, like a kind of putting that aside and helping people cope with all the other aspects of their life that may be contributing, and again, asking questions to what might be contributing to the pain experience, like, is so much more productive.
Kara Wada, MD: With, you know, maybe kind of shifting the conversation a little bit into things we can start experimenting with, start doing. With your expertise in pain reprocessing therapy, are there some simple mindset shifts or tools or things that people could use if they're having, maybe today they're listening and they're having a particularly tough day. Are there any like little starter things to try out?
DK CIccone: Yeah.
Pain Reprocessing Therapy and Somatic Tracking
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DK CIccone: I think, so the number one thing is to kind of work on accepting this possibility that pain is not, in fact, connected to a physical tissue damage, but is connected to the nervous system, interpreting something in your environment as a damage to your physical safety. So what I would say is if someone is experiencing a flare up is kind of to sit with it and go, did something happen to me? Did I get, you know, did I fall down the stairs? You know, that like is causing this pain right now? Or is it possible that the pain is just a sensation and it will in fact pass.
And what we learn in pain reprocessing therapy is called somatic tracking. And so what you would normally do is kind of when you have a pain sensation, and I do do this with people in session if something comes up, you close your eyes and you just try non judgmentally to find the pain. 'Cause essentially if you spend time trying to like will the pain away, you're actually reinforcing for your brain, like, "this is a scary, bad thing" as opposed to like embracing it as just like one of many signals, you know. It's like you're driving down the highway of life and there's billboards everywhere. And you know, it's just giving you notices.
And so like they talk about, they use, you know, like, you're at an aquarium and you're just looking through the glass and watching the pain like a fish, you know, just like, so kind of trying to visualize things that move or like clouds or ice cubes melting or whatever, things that naturally pass. And then notice what the pain does and like 9 times out of 10, it will move. It may become less, it may become broader, it may climb up your arm, it may go across your body. And once it starts to do that, and you notice that it's like shifting around, it's kind of like, oh, well, how can it be like, that I'm like, hurting different things, like all over the place? Like, surely this is my brain and everything is okay.
And I think once people can kind of put that into practice every time and learn to objectively see it as just a thing that's happening in your body just like anything else like goose bumps or you know sweating or anything like that? I think that that can be really powerful because it's a tool that you can kind of come back to and what I often do is I combine that with sort of like what's happening in my life right now? How do I unpack this as an actual signal? Have I not slept enough? Like, did a conversation upset me? Am I guarding, am I clenching because I'm about to go do something that, you know, I'm worried about or whatever.
And so like, I've definitely had it happen where I'm maybe going to garden or bend over and my back will do that little kind of like, you know, and that would have turned into full on flair for me in the past, but now I'm kind of like, "Okay. Let everybody get on board," you know, like trying to take a deep breath. And I've found that that's been really effective for me, but it requires, and this is the rub. It requires having a level of an ability to converse with your own body that I think most of us find really, really difficult.
And it, again, took me a long time to get to that place. And that's why so much of the book really focuses on that aspect, because once you've been in pain for a period of time, you've been through diet culture for a period of time, you've been taught to hate your body for a period of time. You know, I went to a conference a couple weeks ago for the Trauma Research Foundation. I mean, the percentages of people who've been through, you know, childhood experiences or other traumas is like incredibly high. I mean, there are a million reasons why, like, you know, you may have had a biological need to separate a little bit from your physical body. And so we have to figure out how to get back and how to embody ourselves and be comfortable with who we are and be comfortable with what's happening and not fear it.
And that takes consistency and practice.
Finding Joy in Movement
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DK CIccone: And I find that's why I think that mindful movement is so important because you're able to move your body in a way that I call it like being exploratory, you know, like not doing it like, "Okay, I need you to lift your arms 10 times," but like, "Pick up your arm and like, what is that like? What does that feel for you? You know, like, do you have goosebumps? is it cold out there? Like, do your arms feel tired? Like just checking in with your body is so hard. I think everything about our environment encourages us to completely unplug from our physical being. And, yeah,
so Yeah.
Kara Wada, MD: For those who are not, are listening and not watching, I picked up my phone. I think, you know, what I've realized with this darn thing is like, that's my escape, right? If I, you know, don't want to feel something emotionally or physically. Like, oh, let's check the newsfeed or the email. So many ways to disconnect.
DK CIccone: Yeah, for sure. And it's not going to get easier. That's the thing. So, I mean, I always talk about how, like, building stress resilience or, you know, increasing that mind body connection, like, it's swimming upstream, like, there's nothing about our world that encourages that behavior. And so, we do have to sort of be ready to define our boundaries and do the opposite of what is easy. And, that's why I think having a good accountability network, like understanding how you individually can be consistent. Like, you know, if you're someone who, you know, a lot of people, a lot of us are used to catering to the needs of others. And so even that as a concept is difficult. So if that's who you, you know, if that's your history, like trying to figure out what you need in order to show up for yourself, with the understanding that it means a longer, more active, more fruitful life. It's hard to like, it's like a delayed kind of gratification thing, right? It's like hard to make those steps when it feels like the end goal is so far away. We've got to do it, we've got to help each other, and we've got to figure out how to orient the health system around supporting those kinds of behaviors and our workplace.
Just change all the systems. Can't we just change all the
Kara Wada, MD: yeah, I mean, we'll talk after, I did kind of a brain dump on that earlier this week that, you know, it's kind of my five year plan, but, we'll see where it takes us.
Core Message of the book 'You're Meant to Move'
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Kara Wada, MD: Your book is called, You're Meant to Move. What is that core message that you want those that pick it up and read it, which all of you should, especially if you're dealing with chronic pain, but what would you like them to take away?
DK CIccone: Yeah, so, I mean, as I said in the beginning, there's so much hope, I mean, for being mobile. And like I said, you notice that it's not that I told people, you know, "Get out of pain" or like, you know, "Five steps to being out of pain," which by the way would have been a really catchy super marketing friendly title. But the point is that like evolutionarily like our bodies are not meant to sit in chairs all the time and like we were actually meant to be active I promise that your body like desires to be active even if you may feel frustrated or disappointed or discouraged, it's in your DNA to move, and I feel like that to me is, like, creates a lot of hope and peace because it's like, okay, if I just keep doing the things, if I keep showing up for my body, like, I will get stronger, I will get more mobile, like, it can't help itself. It will adapt. So I feel like I want people to feel empowered to claim their birthright, to have as much of an active life as they desire.
Kara Wada, MD: I feel that segues into, you know, the question that we always like to ask our guests at the end, which is, you know, what does becoming immune confident mean to you? And I, I feel like you kind of, in a lot of ways, you know,
the,
DK CIccone: Yeah,
Kara Wada, MD: similarities, goodness.
DK CIccone: I mean, I work with a lot of folks with autoimmune conditions, actually, and, um, I think, like you said, I've kind of touched on it, but to me, being immune confident would be kind of recognizing that our physical body is a, is a partner. It's a friend. I think sometimes we end up kind of frenemies. with our bodies. And so it's, it's the, it's being able to, to figure out how to partner, how to listen, and then feel like you have agency in your body to, to live, live the life that you want to live, um, with whatever tools are necessary. And that's so unique. It's so individualized. And so I think it's a journey that everyone needs to go on.
Kara Wada, MD: Thank you so much.
How to Connect with DK Ciccone
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Kara Wada, MD: This has been incredible. We, I'm going to ask you to share, you know, how people can connect for those that are listening or watching. If you scroll down, you'll be able to access all those links on the show, on the show notes page. Um, but where can people find you DK?
DK CIccone: Yeah. So I'm at movementremedies. org. Um, and I'm mostly in terms of social media on Instagram, which is movement underscore remedies. And you can also email me [email protected] if you want to learn more about the book or about, um, you want to try out a virtual mat class. I do do virtual mat classes that are oriented around folks restorative movement experience and yeah, just looking forward to connecting with people.
And this is a journey and a conversation. So.
Kara Wada, MD: And where can people pick up your book?
DK CIccone: My book is available on Amazon. So whichever country you're in, in that Amazon marketplace, it'll be available.
Kara Wada, MD: Awesome. Yeah, I have it on my Kindle. Um, so I've been working through, as I mentioned, you know, kind of working through those exercises. Rather than, I tend to sometimes just like binge through a book, but I'm, and I'm like, no, I'm going to consciously do this in little bite sized chunks so that I'm, um, really integrating it.
And you called me to do that in the book. So thank you for calling me out. Um, and I'm just so glad we were able to connect. Um, for helping me reframe some of the ways that I have, you know, thought about my body and movement. And I'm just excited to see, you know, I'm sure we will continue to stay in touch and excited to see what the future brings.
DK CIccone: Yeah, it was really my pleasure to chat with you, and I'm so grateful that we got to connect. So thank you.
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Kara Wada, MD: Hey there, amazing listeners. Before we wrap up today's episode, I want to take a quick moment to ask for your support. If you're enjoying the content of the Becoming Immune Confident Podcast, we're bringing you week after week, there's a simple, but incredibly impactful way you can show your appreciation.
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