Beyond the Call of Duty of a Living Organ Donor: Lindsay Gutierrez's Mission
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Kara Wada, MD: Welcome back to this episode of the Becoming Immune Confident podcast. Hi, I'm Dr. Kara, and I am just thrilled to welcome our guest for this week.
Meet Lindsay Gutierrez: Air Force Veteran and Social Advocate
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Kara Wada, MD: We have Lindsay Gutierrez with us. She is originally from Midwest City, Oklahoma, and she dually resides in Nashville, Georgia, and Fort Meade, Maryland with her active duty Air Force husband, Anthony and her many fur babies. She's a veteran of the United States Air Force and works for the Department of Defense. It was through her work in the military and outside experiences that Lindsay was able to find her calling as a social advocate. After separating from the military in 2016, Lindsay first became involved in pageants to bring awareness to veterans needs and issues.
Lindsay has held the titles of Ms. Veteran America, Ms. Georgia U.S. Continental, Ms. Georgia American Women of Service, Ms. Georgia South, Mrs. Hira Honeybee, Ms. Georgia Military Star Honorary Veteran, and Mrs. American Elegance. Lindsay attended undergrad at Lee University in Cleveland, Tennessee, and she continued her graduate studies at the University of Oklahoma with a Master's in Human Relations and Arizona State University with her Master's in Social Work.
She's an active volunteer in her community and is an ambassador for various living organ donor foundations. Her favorite quote to live by and encourage others with is, 'Be the change you wish to see in the world.' I am thrilled to get to have this conversation with you and share it with our listeners, Lindsey.
But thanks so much for taking time to talk today.
Lindsay Guttierez: Thank you so much for having me.
Kara Wada, MD: I would love to hear a little bit more about your story.
Lindsay's Transition from Military to Social Advocacy
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Kara Wada, MD: How did you end up kind of where you are doing what you're doing?
Lindsay Guttierez: Oh, gosh. So I guess the shortened version 'cause I could go on forever. It feels like with our, our first stories. But really what happened was after I graduated college, I always kind of knew that I wanted to be involved in something. What that something was, I had no idea. I just knew I wanted to be out in the world and doing something I feel like to make a difference.
So I had majored in theater. I wanted to do special effects makeup. So I moved to California in 2009 and I was trying to make it work. I really wanted to work on special effects makeup, I wanted to get into the industry and everything was not falling into place at all. So I thought well, what can I do? Let me try to figure out something else I can do to really help me get moving forward in my goals. I felt like everybody else in my life was getting where they wanted to except me. So I ended up joining the military a year later, and then that's really where things kind of kicked off. I served for six years in the Air Force, and it was during that time, a few deployments anyway, that I started finding more about social work and how that could become a part of my life. And so I didn't know at the time it was called social work.
I had was, my master's at the time I was going for was in human relations. And so I was like, well, I feel like there's something additional that I can go a little bit forward with that. So I decided, let me check into this after I separated from the Air Force. And then that's when I got involved with a lot of military veteran organizations and just doing advocacy work because my separation from the military wasn't easy. I was really trying to find my new niche and what I was supposed to do. And I had established this life for the last six years in the military and now all of a sudden I'm out. What do I do?
So that's how I started getting involved with military nonprofits and advocating for women veterans, specifically.
Beginning of Lindsay's Organ Donation Journey
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Lindsay Guttierez: And then a few years later, I decided to embark on organ donation, not really something that crosses many people's paths at all. It's not something I woke up and was like, I think I'm going to donate my kidney today. But I was actually involved in a pageant a couple of years ago. And it was through that pageant I learned of somebody who was needing an organ, specifically, a liver. And he needed some testing and all these other things that needed to go along with that. And immediately, knowing I was O positive, I said, well, I can donate to anybody, universal donor. I can do whatever I need to do. And thankfully, this person was able to get the treatments that he needed, but that stuck in my mind.
And then a couple of months down the road and January of 22 is whenever I started finding out more of how I could really start to become an organ donor. So it was through various channels and processes. So I found an organization called Donor Outreach for Veterans. They specifically connect donors to veteran recipients who are needing a kidney. So I thought, well, that's close to my heart, especially being a veteran. Went through the testing and everything through Mount Sinai. It's the most intense testing I've ever been through. Things that probably people wouldn't normally go through ever in their life. But I was like, "Okay, this is good to know, at least for my own benefit. I know if I'm healthy, if there's anything medically I need to care for for myself." Nothing popped on any tests, so that was good. And we moved forward with the donation, and so I donated on May 25th of 22. Last March, we hiked Mount Kilimanjaro with a group of other organ donors and recipients and medical teams from UCLA. So it was a really big group of people. Different supporters around Tanzania and then here in the US. And then I actually got confirmation a couple of days ago that I am cleared to donate my liver. And so I will be donating my liver on April 30th.
How do you become a Living Organ Donor?
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Kara Wada, MD: Amazing. Can you share a little bit about kind of what that process is like, kind of going through the testing, maybe for someone who's like, "Oh, I'm a little bit curious", but that's, you know, so that maybe they have a better idea of what to expect.
Lindsay Guttierez: Right. So it's very intensive. It's not scary by any means. It doesn't hurt other than just the, the blood that you have to give. So I would say if you're not, if you're afraid of needles, this is probably not the best process for you. If you don't care about needles and you're pretty tolerant of that, it's going to be an okay process. So I gave a ton of blood. That was originally where everything started, was just to make sure that all of my levels, I mean, I don't even know where to start. Tons of levels. I'm sure being a doctor, you can imagine there's tons of levels of panels that I have to go through.
And so the doc, yes, everything was evaluated. You name it, it was on this panel that had to be looked at. So, the panel came back clear. After that, I had to give a urine test. So I gave several urine tests. They wanted to make sure that everything was good with my urine, that my kidneys were functioning as they should within the ranges that were normal. That came back clear. I continued on with the process, and then I actually physically went to Mount Sinai. And I had a whole day of testing there. So I had an EKG, an MRI, a CT with contrast. Oh my gosh, what else? An x-ray.
So I had all types of different testing that was really checking, an ultrasound. So I had lots of things that were going on that day. And then of course I spoke to all the different specialists within the donor team. And then they met the following week and reviewed the different people that were going through the process to figure out if they would be a good candidate or not. And then of course for kidney donation, it's very similar.
So now that I had gone through the testing and everything was good there, a little bit different for liver because it's a much more intensive and invasive surgery than donating my kidney was. At least with the kidney, you're taking out the whole organ. With the liver, you're cutting part of it off. And so, right now I don't know if my recipient is going to be a child, which could be up to 20 to 30 percent of my liver. If it's an adult, it could be between 60 and 65 percent.
Differences in Recovery: Kidney vs. Liver Donation
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Lindsay Guttierez: So, the recovery is also going to be a lot more intensive too. So, basically it was the exact same process with the different testings. It's the recovery that's going to be a little bit different from the kidney to the liver. So with the recovery for liver though, I am going to have a little tube to make sure because I still have part of my liver left. But just to make sure I don't have any bile leakage or internal bleeding, I'll have that duct there for a few days until I'm fully discharged and then that'll be removed. And I'll have a pretty decent sized scar on the right side, right underneath my rib cage. So it's apparently going to look like a hockey stick. So it'll be a cool scar to have. And then I have for my kidney though, I have a tiny C-section, it's about the width of my fist. And it's almost where a woman would have a C-section for a baby. That's where mine is located. And then I have four laparoscopic on my side, which is where the robot did its thing. And then my surgeon actually took out the kidney and sewed me up. So that's kind of the differences between the two.
Kara Wada, MD: That's incredible.
The Ripple Effect of Organ Donation
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Kara Wada, MD: I have peripherally followed patients who are on their path to getting on the list. And so it's really, it's fascinating to hear that your experiences of donating, they do echo what those patients are going through in many ways too. And then, you know, the part that kind of remains unsaid, but where my brain as an immunologist is going and nerding out a little bit is a lot of that blood that was taken from you and then from them too is going to figure out if you two are a match.
Because just as you mentioned with having O type blood, it makes you a universal donor but that also, there's several additional layers to that, so that's kind of like the first check, and then there's a few other checks with something called your HLA and some other markers too. Because the better match you have, then that recipient, hopefully will be able to have a longer ability to use what, you know, that amazing gift um, and hopefully not need as much medication to suppress their immune system too. Yeah.
Lindsay Guttierez: That's correct. It is pretty fascinating just to see all the different levels of testing that go into it, because it's not just one part. I mean, just because you could be a match doesn't mean that you're going to be a good match for that person. So it's really interesting to see everything that goes along with it.
Kara Wada, MD: I'm always amazed by those stories that will come out every once in a while about the donor chains that will go through where, you know, someone makes a donation and then they're able to kind of find different matches along the way. And it's, it is like this, and this is the terrible analogy, but you know, at Starbucks, when someone pays it forward, like this is that on a million times, right?
Lindsay Guttierez: It's very, very similar. Yes.
Kara Wada, MD: The logistics are kind of similar. The magnitude, a little different.
Lindsay Guttierez: Well, it's actually funny that you bring that up because that is kind of what happened in the process of my kidney donation. So originally I was paired with a veteran. His name is James. And so I was paired with James and then it turns out I wasn't a match. And so we were kind of going back to the drawing board of different things. For whatever reason, I wasn't able to donate with him. And so few things that logistically just weren't working out but it ended up, I was a match to another gentleman named Kevin. And so things were going along between me and Kevin as far as, I didn't know that's who it was at first. I just knew that it was going to be somebody. And then it turns out there was somebody else that came along and his name was Reggie. And so Reggie is actually the one I donated to, but him and his wife were wanting to go through the process together. She wanted to donate to him. She wasn't a match to him, but she was a match to Kevin. So even though I was paired to Kevin, I donated to Reggie so that she could donate to uh, Kevin. Yeah. So it worked out well, yeah. And they're doing amazing.
So it's really fascinating to see how even taking from somebody else, a completely different person that you probably never would have matched in your entire life and they are thriving and doing really well. Everything is great. Like almost to the point, I believe to where Reggie was telling me not too long ago that his doctors are a little bit surprised because it's doing so well that even the rejection medicine is making him feel weird. And so when he doesn't take it, he feels great and everything's wonderful. So it's like it's working too well to an extent, I guess. Which like what? I mean, I guess that's a good thing. So I know that they're gonna figure it out. But it's really amazing just to see how that happens.
Kara Wada, MD: Absolutely. I know, you know, prior to kind of our conversation here, most of my kind of more like personal experiences, I had an uncle pass away unexpectedly and, you know, I think he was probably in his mid to later forties and kind of through that process, he was able to give life to some other folks. At the time I was in high school or college and so it was, you know, it was just this, you know, this bright spot out of a really tragic situation and so this is really refreshing to kind of reframe my thoughts around organ donation kind of in just this wonderful giving way.
Lindsay Guttierez: Awwe, that's really special. It can definitely touch so many lives and I always encourage people whether you're an angel donor or you're a living donor, organ donation really does make an impact and it makes waves that you'll never be able to see.
Kara Wada, MD: I love that term, angel donor. That's new to me. I like that a lot. Thank you.
Lindsay Guttierez: I found it that it's, it holds more meaning, I feel like.
Kara Wada, MD: Absolutely.
Lindsay Guttierez: Because you are giving a gift. You're donating so much of yourself and only angels can, I feel like would be able to do that, somebody who's really that wanting to give. I don't remember where I heard that from, but I heard it now and I was like, that stuck with me too. It really meant something, to hear that.
Lindsay's Experience with PTSD and TBI Post-Deployment
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Kara Wada, MD: In addition to kind of your work and advocacy with organ donation, you also have had experiences with PTSD and TBI's and could you share a little bit more about?
Lindsay Guttierez: Sure. So while I was in the Air Force, it was during one of my deployments to Djibouti. And so that was in, I think that was around August timeframe. August 2014 to about end of January, early February 15. So we were there for about six months total. So that's important to the story because this situation happened early on in the deployment. And it was probably maybe September, October timeframe, I think where we worked was different than where we slept. And so we were protecting a different location. And so every day, we would have to go off base to have to pick up the different meals and bring it back to where we were working. So on this one particular night, me and one of the other sergeants I was with, we were assigned to that particular area and it was about 4:20, 4:30 in the morning and cause I worked nights. And so we were finishing up an exercise with some of the people that we were with. So we were really hyped up, our adrenaline was going. So we were just trying to calm ourselves down. And we got in the car and all of a sudden I kind of had this feeling and I don't know if it's like a sixth sense or if it was, I really do feel like it was God telling me, "Prepare." So I felt like, "What if this is the moment where there's an accident?" And not a second later the vehicle started fishtailing because there's, it's all gravel road. There's no paved road or anything where we were at. And so it's completely dark too because we're out in the middle of nowhere so there's no light.
So all we could feel was exactly what was going on. Next thing I know the vehicle is rolling. And so it's probably two or three rolls down. And thank goodness it wasn't this massive cliff which is was there where we were at, they did have those. But thank goodness we just rolled a couple of times down this hill. But it was enough because it made a huge impact because we were rolling onto boulders. So we land right side up. Thank goodness, none of us were actually physically hurt on the outside. We didn't have any cuts or anything it but I immediately knew, "Okay, we need a call for medical help." So I got on the phone, the little cell phone that we had. I called our sergeant, told them what was going on. He immediately rushed everybody down there and they got medical to us. And then we were escorted to the actual base where we were living at the time and got seen at the clinic there. The challenge was that you're in a deployed location. So you have very limited resources, unless they had flown us to Germany, I believe it was Landstuhl, the hospital there. There really wasn't anything that we could do. So basically it was treat ourselves. And because it wasn't my first concussion. I knew the side effects. I had my self body care training. I had gone through all these trainings before. I knew this is a concussion because of, I had sensitivity to light, I had this excruciating headache, so I knew there was a lot going on there and I needed to take care of myself. So somehow I walked from where I was sleeping all the way to the clinic again, to have this documented and recorded 'cause at the time the concussion hadn't kicked in. I probably shouldn't have gone to bed that night, but I was just in that kind of state of mind where I was like, I am exhausted. I just have to go to bed. So I basically powered through for the next six months, trying to figure out and how to cope with what was going on. At the time I didn't think it was a TBI though. I just knew this is a bad concussion. I'm gonna live through it. I'm fine. So years later though. Yeah, it wasn't until years later after I was separated from the Air Force that I realized this was a TBI. And it was probably in 2018 or 2019, I was diagnosed by the VA with a traumatic brain injury. And so it took all those years, almost five years before I was truly diagnosed.
Although I had all this intuition and this feeling of something isn't settling right. I know that there's something chemically wrong going on in my head, but how do you articulate that to somebody who has no idea, you can't see it on an x-ray or an MRI or a CT. None of that shows up. I was like, "Unless I'm dead and they're looking at my brain that way, there's really no way to tell what's going on." So I felt really invalidated with all of my feelings that I had going on. But I knew that there was something there and so I just kept trusting myself and be like, "I'm going to find somebody. I'm going to find a neurologist who's going to listen to me."
And thank goodness I did. I had a great neurologist at the VA who finally heard me and got me the treatment that I needed. And so now I realize just because somebody is going through something and you can't see it doesn't mean that something isn't there. Really listen and if it's one thing I'm so glad of is I had doctors that listened to me finally whenever it was that time. And now I have the utmost respect for doctors who really do listen to their patients and have that conversation and talk to them instead of just saying, "Well, I'm gonna treat you," or "Here's what you have. Here's the medicine for it." She really listened to me and got me the attention that I needed. She heard me.
The Evolution of Patient Care and Advocacy
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Kara Wada, MD: I think that in my mind, that's the key to so much of all of the, you know, the issues we have in healthcare. If we could go back, you know, go to this place where those human to human relationships and conversations are able to happen and there's the time and the space. Both, you know, actual time and an actual space, but also the mental bandwidth and making sure that, you know. One thing I've kind of. I've only had little sprinkles of working with VA doctors during my training. The training program I had just had a little bit of that experience and I loved it. But one of the things that I really appreciated about that experience was seeing that the piece of the work there was steady. It wasn't super rushed and the docs that I work with had time to talk to their patients. And I think that has stayed with me kind of all of these years. Yeah. And, and if only we could like take bits and pieces, you know, more than bits and pieces, but take that to, you know, to being able to have those.
Could you imagine if we had those, you know, an hour with our primary care doctors, like to get to know us and go through all the things and talk about. Even, you know, some of the things you mentioned like self care and wellness and nutrition and exercise and these things that are really critical to preventing problems. Versus that, you know, this paradigm of just, here's a pill or treat it, here's a surgery.
Lindsay Guttierez: Yeah. It's good to see that that has shifted in so many decades. Because in my job, I go around and I do talk to people. I'm a social worker, but I do some investigations as well in my role just trying to get down to the bottom of what's going on with this particular applicant that we have coming in.
And so I actually had a case where I had to go and talk to some doctors for a residency program. And it was amazing to see how they even said themselves, medical care has changed so much, even since they were in school. And now it's so focused on the self care, the wellness, making sure that you're getting the adequate sleep and you're feeding your body the right things. And to know that there's people out there, especially whenever I was going through this situation, being a social worker, I was like, "I know I need to advocate for myself. How am I going to be heard?" And it's frustrating to not be heard. But when all these things came into focus, hearing what the doctors had to say at the VA, now in my current role, talking with you and having this conversation, it's really just, it's such a huge part of how patient care and that doctor relationship has changed and really bettered. It has gotten so much better and I'm so thankful for that. Especially, you know, doctors like you as well, who really do have that connection with patients and caring for them.
Kara Wada, MD: I think, you know, one thing I try to really harp in, you know, harp on, especially I'm talking with colleagues is taking care of ourselves isn't selfish because the reality is it has ripple effects. Our family, I see it with my kiddos, you know, wanting to like lift some weights with me or like on their little baby peloton, whatever. But also then on our patients too. Like, you can show up better and be more present with them when you weren't burnt out
Lindsay Guttierez: I totally agree.
Kara Wada, MD: There. Yeah. Yeah.
Lindsay Guttierez: It's like, what outlet works for you?
Kara Wada, MD: Absolutely.
Advocacy and Future Endeavors: Pageants and Beyond
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Kara Wada, MD: Now I see a beautiful sparkly crown and sash in the background and I don't know that we mentioned, this is how we met, was through our pageant sisterhood, through Dr. World Productions. But I would love to hear about your current role, what you're doing, what's on the horizon.
Lindsay Guttierez: Oh gosh. I am excited for this upcoming pageant season. So currently holding the title of Ms. Achievement Nations Capital USA, and I'm thrilled to be able to represent, 'cause it's the first that's been here in the DC, Maryland, Virginia area. And it's really exciting to be able to bring my platform, being a living organ donor to this stage. And now that advancements are happening within the last few days of getting the news about my liver donation, it's really cool to be able to share that with people who are following along on the journey too. But I'm excited to continue advocating, working in these types of spaces. So it's just amazing to know that whatever comes up, I certainly am a huge advocate in working with the American Kidney Foundation as an ambassador, working with donor outreach for veterans. So those are some of the activities that I'll be doing sooner, hopefully. And just keeping active in that space. And then, of course, continuing on with Veteran organization. So there's a lot of good opportunities around here. Now, which I'm in the prep season as we get closer to competition time. So focusing on that and just keeping people updated and ensuring that they have the opportunities to follow along with whatever things are coming up.
Kara Wada, MD: So when is the pageant?
Lindsay Guttierez: So we are having the pageant. Ours is in July. And so we'll have all of our video auditions, all the components really that go along because everything's done through video. So we'll have all of that completed and turned in. We'll have our live interviews about a month prior, and then we'll have all the results and the official ceremony in July so I'm very excited. I'm looking forward to sharing this with my fellow sisters and queens. And so it's an exciting time.
Kara Wada, MD: It's just a fun group of really amazing humans that we get to, you know, hang out with both virtually and occasionally in real life. And you'll be competing for the title of Ms. Achievement. Is it Ms. Achievement or Ms. Achievement USA? Awesome.
Lindsay Guttierez: That's it. Yes.
Kara Wada, MD: Well, we are super excited to cheer you on. Where can people follow you and connect with you?
Lindsay Guttierez: Yeah, so you can find me on Instagram. I'm @linds_gutierrez. And then of course you can find me on my Facebook page at Ms. Nation's Capital Achievement USA 24. I know that's a mouthful. So I feel like any
Kara Wada, MD: We'll have
Lindsay Guttierez: any combination of those
Kara Wada, MD: notes so they can just click on the hyperlink and go hit follow.
Lindsay Guttierez: Perfect. And that's where you can follow along with my journeys on both of those platforms. I have several journeys going on between volunteering and then just community service and whatever else may be happening. I have a lot happening and I always like to share that with others. I feel like sharing our testimonies is a big part of moving forward in life.
Kara Wada, MD: Absolutely. And we'll link to Dr. World Productions too, in case anyone wants to join us. They're not, they're not sponsoring this episode, but we love working them and working with Diana. She's an awesome director, and it's been a really fun. I was never in a sorority in college, so I feel like I'm making up for it now.
Lindsay Guttierez: Lost time for sure. I certainly can empathize with that.
Kara Wada, MD: Well, thank you so much, Lindsay. This has been so fun. I can't wait 'til we get to meet again, and maybe we'll have our, you know, extra fancy lashes and hair and sparkles going.
Lindsay Guttierez: Oh, I know, right? That would be, that would be amazing. I would love to have that.
Kara Wada, MD: Sounds great. Well, thank you again. Take care.
Lindsay Guttierez: Thank you. You too. Bye bye.
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