The Crunchy Allergist 0:03
Sick of the fatigue and fog fed up with the unpredictable flares hangry from the super restrictive diets. Hello, and welcome to the crunchy allergists podcast, a podcast empowering those who like me appreciate both a naturally minded and scientifically grounded approach to health and healing. Hi, I'm your host Dr. Kara Wada, quadrupel board certified pediatric and adult allergy immunology and lifestyle medicine physician sjogrens patient and life coach. My recipe for success combined the anti inflammatory lifestyle, trusting therapeutic relationships, modern medicine and mindset to harness our body's ability to heal. Now, although I might be a physician, I'm not your physician, and this podcast is for educational purposes only. Welcome, everyone. Thank you so much for joining us today. I feel so excited and honored to welcome Dr. Jenna Wah to our podcast today. She is an environmental health scientist and dietitian by training. She's super passionate about the environment, public health and everything related to food all things near and dear to my heart to Jenna holds a bachelor's degree in nutrition, a master's in public health and a PhD in Environmental Health Sciences from the UC Berkeley and she completed her postdoc fellowship at Stanford. So amazing pedigree, as we say from our you know, our when we think about training, but she was really frustrated by the lack of data for how harmful chemicals such as BPA and phthalates and parabens, from plastics and our everyday products really can affect our health and clinical outcomes. So this has been her mission to put together a personalized approach to mitigating these harmful chemical exposures. She founded million marker which is a health tech startup, and it's dedicated to empowering everyone with the data and tools to determine the products they use the food they eat, the water they drink, and that may negatively or positively influence their health. So million marker helps provide people with an understanding of what chemicals are inside of them and provide simple solutions for quickly reducing harmful chemicals through mail and test kits, lifestyle audits, product recommendations and counseling. So that was a mouthful, but I'm so excited to welcome you Dr. Jenna. Um, let's let's dig in. So tell us kind of a little more of the story how How did million marker come to be?
Dr. Jenna Hua 2:43
Thank you so much, Kara for having me. I'm also super excited. Yeah, Millie market King to be partially because my career professionally and also personally like, there's both sides of the story. So professionally, I ran into a wall during my research that we have no data to study these chemicals. And you know, today, if you talk about precision medicine, a lot of time we talk about genetics. But genetics actually only accounts for about 30% of everyone's chronic disease risk versus the rest of them are fawning over environment. And then we call this the exposome. Compared to the genome, we call it exposome is everything other than a genome is part of your environment. So there is like no data to study these environmental exposures. And when we talk about environmental exposure, if you think about the air you breathe, the food you eat, the products that you use, a lot of these chemicals that were being exposed to are you getting exposed to them a very tiny amount, but you get exposed to them day in and day out over a long time. So it's almost like if you there's something harmful, they're not going to kill you tomorrow, but you're they're killing you slowly. So it's very frustrating that we have no data. And there's also huge gap in terms of translating what we have seen in research to the public. So then everyone everyday consumer can take action to do something about it, reduce exposures and optimize their health. So that was on a professional side that I ran into the spa. I was like nobody's reading my papers. Maybe I should, I should be doing something else. And then on the personal side, I had a I had a lot of allergy. I had a lot of fertility struggle myself, I have two super rare genetic condition only happens during pregnancy that prevents me funds to successfully carry through a pregnancy. So after four super late stage miscarriages, the doctors were just telling me a good luck next time there because we don't know what's going on. Because I studied these chemicals. I knew they could potentially impact my fertility and miscarriages. And why I went to the doctor, I asked if I could get a test because I've done genetic tests and done a ton of any other tests that One can think of, there was no conclusive, you know, answers. Why went to the doctor about this test? They said the only test available is heavy metal. There's nothing else. But I know I mean, these tests, we've been doing bio monitoring for decades through the CDC, I know these tests exists, why are they not accessible to the public? So, so that both reasons adding together, then it prompts me to start milling marker because I felt at the time, even if I just I just want to get a sense of assurance, knowing that, you know, I'm doing everything right. I eliminate this, you know, making sure this is no other reason causing my infertility and miscarriages. I felt that would it be satisfying? And also, you know, if you don't know, it's harder for people to make a change. So I, I'm hoping one day, we can actually empower people with their own data. So then they can actually take actionable steps to you know, move to a healthier life lives with themselves and their families.
The Crunchy Allergist 6:05
What are some of these particular toxins that were exposed to?
Dr. Jenna Hua 6:10
Oh, many. So toxins comes in like we have persistent chemicals and persistent called toxins and also more transient toxins. So persistent toxins people might have heard about DDT, DDT has been banned for a long time. But you know, today, if we look what's in people's blood, you will still find the DDT, they just have a long half life, they're just being a body for a long time. Another chemical people probably have heard a lot about is PFS, we call it forever chemical in non nonstick pans, that's also a persistent chemical, they just stay in your body for a long time. So it's for those chemical, there's like, it's harder to get rid of them because they stay in your body for a long time. Which means that you know, for the stuff that we can actually control of those transient chemicals. And we should definitely take control and transient chemicals, then you're talking about the stuff that we're testing. Today, a million marker that includes BPA, BPA alternatives, validates parabens, oxybenzone, these are more transient chemicals. There's also a class of pesticides, that's also transient. The encouraging thing about the transient chemical is that, you know, if you eliminate the source, you won't get exposed to them, your body will actually have the natural, you know, detox function to get rid of them. So as long as you can eliminate your exposure sources, then you will have less exposure of them.
The Crunchy Allergist 7:39
Which is so empowering to be able to realize that you can make a difference and make an impact through some of your decisions. And I know, we both know, but for kind of for everyone else listening, where can people find these transient toxins in their environment? Like where do we encounter them?
Dr. Jenna Hua 7:59
Yeah, this is I guess this is a bit of doom and gloom, that they are everywhere. But that means that it's because they're everywhere. If you're aware of where they are, then you can actually like reduce them. So BPA, people might have seen like BPA free on their plastic water bottle, or even on cans. So BPA this chemical makes plastic shatterproof, make it brittle. So it's also using as a canned lining in canned food. So these two plastic avoiding plastic is like pretty much like the number one tip that we always give it to people because not only BPA is in plastic, but also like salads that it's another chemical. BPA and phthalates are the most common plasticizers sometimes they can plastic contain up to 80% of BPA or salads. So avoiding plastic is really important. Another big source of BPA is thermal receipts. It's coated and now that you know we banned BPA in food contact materials manufacturers have been using BPS BPF and BPA F TM BPF. I mean, in the entire they can literally use entire alphabet exactly swap them and they're causing just as bad of or even worse impact as BPA which is sad. But that's like one thing is like okay, that's where BPA is from salad. Sally is this chemical that makes plastic flexible. So your usual saran wrap. A lot of time is made of satellites or plastic packaging tape is Could it be made of satellites. You touch them that could be your source of exposure. This is a class of Thali, we call it high molecular weight dilates. There's also a low molecular weight Italys those are generally used in personal Hair products, like fragrance is kind of like the code for Sally's Right? Like, so Sally is making the frequent stick onto your body for a lot longer. And all of these are obviously there are hormone disrupting chemicals. So they mess with your hormone. phthalates are especially bad for say baby boys because they disrupted the androgen system. So Falaise is another one periban is another one. I think periban If you will sees periban. I think we also want to people know that not all parabens are created equal. Okay, so parabens, they usually use Methyl Ethyl propyl budeaux, that's an indication of the length of the parabens. The longer the parabens, the butylparaben is like the way worse, it's like the most toxic ones. But you should always get rid of parabens now there's like, you know, clean beauty movement that monic often label that's periban. Free. So that's great. But parabens, another hidden source. It's, it's also kind of like mind boggling, is they are often also used as preservatives in packaged food. And then packaged food is actually not labeled as parabens, it's actually labeled as hydroxy benzoic acid. Okay, so it's harder for people to recognize. So another tip we generally give people is if you can eat eat, try and eating more. Tried to eat out less, or eat less packaged food? Because that's just you can't you can't control that. Yeah, yeah.
The Crunchy Allergist 11:40
So as we're thinking about some of, I guess, let's walk through how, how kind of this process works like if someone were to undergo testing, or think about incorporating this into kind of their their health and healing journey.
Dr. Jenna Hua 12:02
Yeah, so right now people can simply order a test kit online, we ask you to fill out an exposure journal, whether you do it independently or do it with us, which then we use information to do a complete lifestyle audit, we ask about all the food, you consumed all the utensil, what's your like kitchen routine, we ask about all the products that they're using. So then we can do a comprehensive audit, then we get you send us your urine sample, pee in the morning, send it to us, we get your urine tested. And we'll tell you about your levels, how you compare with our existing users, how you compare with a national average, and then tell you exactly what you can do. What are the problematic lifestyle behaviors or products that they're using? And what are the ones you can actually swap out with to reduce your exposures?
The Crunchy Allergist 12:53
Awesome. So it kind of will take both data points from your history and your lab, essentially your urine test to help make those recommendations.
Dr. Jenna Hua 13:04
Exactly the the urine test, I think it's useful. The reason we wanted to show is yes, you can definitely practice, lifestyle swap and changes already. But many times, there's just a lot of hidden things in products that's not labeled. So by doing the test, you can actually reveal exactly what goes on in your body. Another thing that we have seen, which is not exactly proven, the science is not there yet to show is just found a trend that we have observed that, you know, because we're screening for metabolites, so meaning that if you if you're using good products, then you know your metabolize your chemical level should be low. However, if you're using bad product, you should come come out to be high, right? But there's a group of people that they're using not super optimal product, bad product, but their levels are coming out low. That's actually problematic, because where did it go? This makes us ask a question, you know, where did where did you Where did your chemical go? It probably stored in your fat cell and then that means your body is not as efficient detoxing, while we don't have a genetic test to you know, actually understand what's causing your body not detoxing, we think having having done the urine test will give you additional insight. So, if your body is not efficient at detoxing, then by all means you need to avoid even more. Yeah, compared to other people.
The Crunchy Allergist 14:36
And you I guess, you know, just hypothesis you know, kind of thinking about that situation like are then maybe those individuals that are more susceptible to some of the effects from exactly these exposures. Right. Exactly. When, um what do you see kind of coming down the line in regards to To like, where's the science headed? Do you think paid to, you know, put on your prediction?
Dr. Jenna Hua 15:07
I think we need more, we definitely need more research. Because today, we have been studying one chemical at a time. But we actually being exposed to many chemical all at the same time, we have no idea, like, you know, together, like if you're exposed to all these things at the same time, like, what are they going to do to our health? You know, that we don't know. So this is also where we're hoping by collecting the data studying the exposome, like the whole environmental exposure as a whole. So then we can actually study these mixture effects and actually understand, what are they doing to our body?
The Crunchy Allergist 15:46
I think that's interesting. That's where and I'm sure you've encountered it with your nutrition training and education as well. But I think there was always like this discussion amongst clinicians, that a lot of the nutrition data we have would be based on one particular vitamin. And so I was very excited. This has been a few years ago, there was a paper that was published looking at the role of the diet as a whole in in, for instance, this was an asthma and control of asthma, using this dietary inflammatory index. And so what was really neat about that was you were able to really look at more of what was going on in the whole person, as opposed to just these single data points, because we aren't single data points, right? We're in this super complex exposome, like all the things are going on.
Dr. Jenna Hua 16:39
Right, exactly. That's why we're hoping, you know, with the data we're collecting, we can actually look at all your metabolites all at once. It's not for it's still the work in the research, like today, say if we screen for these chemicals, we're actually using a targeted approach, meaning that we specifically target these chemicals, and we understand you know, your levels and everything. With research, what we're trying to do is using this on targeted approach, we literally screen for every single metabolites. So with big data with screening for every single metabolites, then we can actually start seeing correlations out of everything that you're exposed to what what's correlated with your lifestyle was correlated with your, you know, disease, biomarkers, what's correlated with your nutritional biomarkers? I see there's a lot of potential that you know, maybe one day we don't have to ask people to do a dietary recall, you know, we just scan you metabolize that we know exactly what you've consumed. Because we know the recall is like, it's not accurate.
The Crunchy Allergist 17:41
No, everyone remembers the good things right. Or maybe, exactly. I always conveniently forget about that snacking. I do the same. Oh, what sorts of things have you done in your everyday life? To kind of decrease your exposures?
Dr. Jenna Hua 18:03
Many things. Many things I often like, when people ask me about tips for detoxing, I always think about, you know, always think about like, where do you get your most exposures from? If you say for example, if you obviously you eat everyday, right, so kitchen is like a really important place to think about detoxing, what kind of pots and pans you're using, you know, try to avoid nonstick pans, because even if, if a product label PFOA P FOS free, we have no idea if they use any alternatives. Yeah, because it's not regulated. So then choosing a stainless steel or cast iron or ceramic is a lot better. Because again, this is these are persistent chemicals, which if you expose to there's not much you can do about it. That means that you know, try not to expose yourself more and then try to reduce the transient chemicals. So kitchen is a really good place and also for your pans and pots and pans or Tupperware if you swap it once. You don't have to swap them for a long time. So it's also a really good investment. So pots and pans definitely think about it and also Tupperware. Also, saran wrap is another big one we tell people to use a beeswax wrap instead of a saran wrap and never ever microwave that saran wrap or any plastic container yes because the key to we're actually released extra chemicals into the food or anything that comes to contact with the food. Water is another great source we recommend people to use reverse osmosis water filter if you can. Any filter is better than no filter but reverse osmosis filter water filter is kind of like a catch to all filter because we have seen our water sources also contaminated with these chemicals as well as pee fast. So if you can afford a reverse osmosis water filter get one of those, then that kind of pretty much takes care of your kitchen. And for your food, obviously eating as much as possible. And if you can choose organic, choose organic. If organics is too expensive frozen organic is generally cheaper, that's still better than the conventional food. If you really have to pick a few that food items to choose organic, any Berry, always choose organic. And also any green leafy veggie for salad, always choose organic kale and spinach. I think it's the most contaminated veggies out there. So if you consume a lot of those definitely
The Crunchy Allergist 20:41
Which are super healthy. And I will just put a plug if you have this space and a tiny bit of energy, like growing kale is pretty like low maintenance. And we I'm in central Ohio, and we and I didn't buy any particular variety, but we had kale up through December, which was really great to like go out in the garden and throw it in some soup or a salad or what have you.
Dr. Jenna Hua 21:04
Yeah, also increase your time outdoor which is great. Get fresh air because dust is another source of potential exposure, we recommend people to take off your shoes when you come home because your underneath your shoe could have a lot of dust, you could be stepping on different chemicals that you're bringing home, especially if you have young kids that young kids tend to crawl on the on the floor, put everything in their mouth, you know, having this extra exposure. It can't be good. So that's like you know, for shoes, and if you think about your your bathroom, right? If you're if you're wash your hair every day, and he uses big blob of shampoo, I would definitely take a look at your product. ingredient label you. Yeah, yeah, yes, it's coming all down. In large amount. If you especially if you wash your hair every day, definitely check out your shampoos and conditioner, making sure that they're periban free. They're like fragrance free. Oftentimes now that manufacturer sometimes we use like worse, instead of using fragrance, they use a Roma it's very deceiving, it's the same thing. So ditch those ambiguous words. And also opt in for fragrance free rather than like unscented because we have seen also like even unscented is actually a set that could have still contains fragrance. So that's one thing to pay attention.
The Crunchy Allergist 22:33
I had a mentor share that with me that that is one of the things that we were talking before we hit record about how allergy immunology and medical training doesn't hit upon this very much. But the one thing we they do drive home is fragrance free. And the difference between that and unscented. And when I learned that there was those light bulbs were like mind blowing moments of like what?
Dr. Jenna Hua 22:58
Yes, I mean, ultimately, we think like consumer shouldn't bear this these burden, but waiting for our you know, glacial pace of government policy change is like, too slow, and you just get got to take actions yourself. So yeah, shampoo, conditioner, just think about what kind of product that you use the most. You know, if you use a lot of deodorant, check that, you know, whatever you use the most definitely check that out. The one thing that we haven't been able to find a lot of clean alternative is over the counter women and creams. So a lot of those were contains parent. So if you don't have to use those, try not to use those, if you absolutely have to use them that you know use them in, you know, moderate amount. So those are like the, I guess my top tips.
The Crunchy Allergist 23:47
Yeah, those are fantastic. And I would say you know is is I'm thinking about we were talking a little bit earlier about eczema. You know, one of the things I tell my patients is to avoid some of those triggers. By avoiding some of those triggers, whether you find out that you maybe are allergic to your dog or dust mites or we we know for pretty much anyone fragrance and dyes in products are big triggers if you can cut those out, that really helps take a little of the lighter fluid off the fire. And so you may not need as much medication you may not need as much of that hydrocortisone ointment to get things under control and to get that skin barrier. Fixed.
Dr. Jenna Hua 24:32
Right? Oh talking about that laundry detergent is another one that PURPOSE CLEANER especially during COVID People are using a ton of wipes and cleaners. That's again a place for Hidden Valley it's and then parabens and these chemicals.
The Crunchy Allergist 24:48
And we know you know as we think about data we know that people who are in occupations that are exposed to those more regularly those who work in cleaning industry or even nurses and and tax at the hospital exposed to what I call the toxic baby wipes that they use to clean everything off, they have increased risk of health, downstream health concerns, including lung concerns, too.
Dr. Jenna Hua 25:12
Right? Right. Because a lot of the some of these things could also even have voc in them. That's, that's just as bad. And then I guess the last tip I have, which is, I didn't know this until I started testing myself, which was really interesting. Two things. One is, many times also check your vitamin supplement capsules. So making sure your capsule is a vegetarian base to capsule, because if it's not a vegetarian base, oftentimes they could be using Thalys to make that capsule. I ended up having taken this of B vitamins A while back, I actually bought it from whole foods that can't remember the brands right now. But that was the only thing I did different. And that vitamin really shoots up my Thalys levels, the moment I eliminate it, it came down to non detectable. So that would just like one thing, again, was the testing, what we can learn is there are so many things that's just hidden, that we have no idea.
The Crunchy Allergist 26:12
And as you touched on earlier, so much of this is unregulated. We know the vitamin supplement industry, the personal care, industry, you know, these different areas, they don't have to disclose everything that's in there, they don't, you know, what's on the package doesn't necessarily have to be what is in the package. And so that's the other area where I definitely see like, if you're having issues and not getting to the bottom of things, and and it's nice to have other options to to have some way to look into this.
Dr. Jenna Hua 26:49
Right, right. And then one last thing is if people are already choosing better product, you know, if you're already reading all the labels, and then you already understand this whole thing, and also trying to pay attention on the packaging. Because sometimes the manufacturer will even if they have good ingredients, they could still be using bad packaging. And if you think about how your product getting shipped to the store, and then you know, this whole transportation, how much sun exposure it would already have before it gets to you. So that could be a lot of leaching can happen in a bottle. Exactly.
The Crunchy Allergist 27:28
Yeah. And I think that's one thing that I had no idea about until I got involved in kind of the clean beauty movement and advocacy kind of hearing companies like you and grace and beauty counter, like mentioning that, that that is something to be in, oh my that totally makes sense. Or even like the the line, the assembly line, you know that stuff being, you know, piped into your containers.
Dr. Jenna Hua 27:57
Exactly. One also like a kind of side story, I learned a lot when I when I started doing this, as you know, essential oil, we have been seen as a good thing. It's a good alternative for replacing with synthetic fragrance. But depending on where this essential oil is made, they could also be very, very different. So if the distilling facility is not using a food grade equipment and manufacturing process, if they're using any plastic, think about that high temperature distilling oil, that everything from that plastic will leach into the essential oil. So that's also another consideration. If you're buying anything like that it's always good to check with the manufacturer to make sure hey, we're our manufacturing facility is adhering to great standard. And then none of these like chemicals are leaching to the product.
The Crunchy Allergist 28:52
Yeah, I think that really, I think it's hard to find this balance because so much of the onus is put on us as consumers directly. I think the way that I've kind of navigated personally is like, Okay, I found a few companies and brands in different areas that I want. I like the products, they work but I'm also like, reassured by their transparency, and they're walking the walk, not just talking the talk with the marketing in order to make sure and so and we do the best we can, you know, know better do better. And we can make those 1% improvements consecutively. Exactly a whole lot better at the end than we started.
Dr. Jenna Hua 29:39
Exactly. Transparency is really important. If you're weighing doubt, always email the company to check if they have if they're aware they have a clear answer and most of the companies who are who are transparent they will have answer for you and they have taken the step to think about this problem and then have a way to address it even though nobody's perfect. but they have taken this step. So having this transparency, I think it's extremely important.
The Crunchy Allergist 30:08
Yeah. So if people want to find you and find out more information about million marker, where should they go?
Dr. Jenna Hua 30:15
People can find us through our website which is www dot million marker dot com. We're pretty active on social media since we really want to educate the public why they need to care even if they don't buy a test kit come up and see our great content. So we're on instagram or on twitter just million marker. Um and if you we also have a newsletter, if you're interested in this topic, we send out a newsletter to let us know let people know the latest research and what we're up to. Um and if anyone have any questions were always up to answering people's questions so people can just like email us through our website.
The Crunchy Allergist 30:53
That's awesome. Do you have anything else that you want to share? Any kind of parting words or something I didn't ask that.
Dr. Jenna Hua 31:01
I guess one last thing I would like to share is um uh you know by detoxing by using better products, it's actually not just good for our own health, it's actually good for the planet because all these chemicals that we're talking about, they're all petroleum based chemicals and they all have to do with climate change, the plastic problem you have, so you know, by choosing a better product, you're actually voting with your dollars and then you're saving the planet.
The Crunchy Allergist 31:27
I think that's huge. Especially like as we continue to see the effects of climate change and I see them very predominantly in my everyday work at the clinic because I see that pollen season is longer. I see people with more sinus infections needing more medications like, it's you know, in addition to, even though I'm not living in an area with knock on wood with forest fires and all these things that still is very apparent just in different ways.
Alright well thank you so much dr Jenna, I really appreciate your time, your expertise and sharing amazing information um with our sjogren's community um and I look forward to talking with you again soon.
Dr. Jenna Hua 32:18
Thank you so much Kara for having me. It's been a pleasure.
